Over-Under or Side-by-Side?

Broz wrote:

Are these the same Chinese Chickens we hunted in Iowa? Last one I ate fell to the report of my sons youth modle mosberg 500 20 ga. He was about 14 at the time.

But I agree late season Pheasants get a bit flighty and the 12 would serve better, especially if you are not hunting over dogs to run them down.

Jeff

Yep...same Chinese Chickens! Wild pheasants are without a doubt the smartest, cagiest, cunning, upland bird out there that will continually make a hunter and dog look like fools at times.

JB wrote:Jeff,

The one exception are wild flushing pheasants....they even challenge the 12 bore!

Are these the same Chinese Chickens we hunted in Iowa? Last one I ate fell to the report of my sons youth modle mosberg 500 20 ga. He was about 14 at the time.

But I agree late season Pheasants get a bit flighty and the 12 would serve better, especially if you are not hunting over dogs to run them down.

Jeff

Jeff,

There is absolutely nothing wrong with carrying a 20 bore afield. You can do almost any kind of upland hunting you want to with a 20. The one exception are wild flushing pheasants....they even challenge the 12 bore! I've always had a fondness for the 16 because it's an almost ideal upland bore and it feels so perfect in hand. The smaller bores don't feel as good to me with my bigger hands.

[quote="BigHorn WBY
Broz, do you want to keep the Gr VI and add a SxS ???? Or is the Browning going down the road. It has a history for you and I have seen to many of those type of "history" guns go away.
[/quote]

I don't know, I saw some in the ego room at Cabelas a while back. Iy would easily fund a nice SXS to hunt with. Or I can always hunt with a 20. Nothing wrong with that....

BigHorn WBY wrote:"Your fault" is a compliment JB, thanks for opening my eyes and rekindling a oild smoldering fire in my heart.

I was only acting like I was sorry I got you back into it. Actually, I'm glad I did because now I can talk about shotguns AND rifles!!! Besides, at least you can blame me for the enabling....I have nobody to blame but myself for my double gun addiction. I grew up in a world of pumps and autoloaders but I always knew as a young kid that I was strangely drawn to the double gun. I'm a victim of self enabling! I still have a soft spot for those nuts & bolts guns, though...especially the classics.

"Your fault" is a compliment JB, thanks for opening my eyes and rekindling a oild smoldering fire in my heart.

Never as elegant was indeed too strong, I will take that back.
I have found, thou with a much smaller test sampling, that I agree JB in that the SxS has treated me better in the game field and the superposed have treated me better on the gaming field. A F3 or a Piotti or a Perazzi O&U purpose built Live Pigeon gun would indeed make me swoon.

Broz, do you want to keep the Gr VI and add a SxS ???? Or is the Browning going down the road. It has a history for you and I have seen to many of those type of "history" guns go away.

JB recommended a AyA 4/53, I will second that as well in that price range. The local store here has a 53 which I will check on pricing and get a photo. I think it was a lot more than the 2500 thou.


There is no better sight in my minds eye than a tough woods day, flopped down beside a favorite meeting tree, sharing a throw together lunch, favorite SIDE by SIDES broke open in our laps, laughing how the timberdoodles sure were crafty today.

BigHorn WBY wrote:AOf course there is deletions that can happen, It could be BLNE, it could be a Wales grip, it could have a hidden third bite......All you fault JB


To me a SxS is the classic to be seen with double, par excellence, bar none. The O&U as always been the beater work horse, game playing gun to me. Never as elegant.

Gee....sorry about that Ed!! You'll look back on this as a turning point....hopefully for the good

Broz wrote:Great post both of you. I too think the SXS is a testament to quality and they way they were and should be. Plus I never have owned a fine sxs. So in that sense and as much as I like to admire my guns as well as use them. I think I will look at SXS. I have shot them at clays and done ok. So this gun will be the one I carry to the field. What sould I look at for sxs's .. KC's Wby sure is nice. Anything else??

I was hoping you'd come around Jeff!!! Now the door is wide open because you can go new or used. For a new gun for someone wanting to get into side-by-sides and with a budget of $2,500, the Weatherby in the same configuration as Jeff's is a good way to start. Your tastes may change over time, but you won't go wrong with the Weatherby side-by-side. You have a nice collection of Weatherby's so that'll let you stay with the same family. I don't know what else I'd recommend as a new gun in that price range except maybe the AYA 4/53, which is a really nice gun with great handling qualities. Send some used gun links my way and I can comment on whatever you're considering. Ed can be the same resource to you, as well.

Great post both of you. I too think the SXS is a testament to quality and they way they were and should be. Plus I never have owned a fine sxs. So in that sense and as much as I like to admire my guns as well as use them. I think I will look at SXS. I have shot them at clays and done ok. So this gun will be the one I carry to the field. What sould I look at for sxs's .. KC's Wby sure is nice. Anything else??

I'll stir the pot a bit more. I disagree on the "looks" debate because I think the over-unders by Boss, Piotti, Fabbri, etc.. are just as pleasing to the eye as a bespoke side-by-side made by the world's best. I go back and forth on this but here is the conclusion I've come to just 8 years ago after starting this debate with myself since I was 20. For me, it's simply a matter of feel. They both have the same parts and they both work the same way, but they don't feel the same. Over-Unders don't feel much different than autoloaders & pumps, which don't feel much different than a rifle. Being a nation of riflemen, most like to bring the stock to the shoulder first, then nestle down in for the correct sight picture before squeezing off the shot. Watch most people and you'll see the gun butt hit the shoulder first before they begin tracking the bird. I can shoot an over-under in the high gun position as well as I can shoot it with the gun starting low, as you would when hunting. Not so the side-by-side, or not for me, anyway. I cannot comfortably shoot a SxS from the high gun position. It just doesn't feel right. SxS's were made for flying game and are built to be instinctual if they are stocked properly. I shoot SxS's much better on game but I think I shoot over-unders better at games like Trap. I like the way a SxS sits low in the hand. Mount a SxS and you'll see that both hands are on the same plane and both are almost on the same plane as the barrels. Switch to an over-under and you'll see that the barrels are at least twice as far above the palm of your lead hand and the trigger hand will be proportionately below the breech. A SxS forces you to bring the gun up to your face. Most argue that an over-under is better because it feels and looks more precise....maybe, I don't know, but not to me.

Anyway, you can go on and on about muzzle flip, wide versus narrow sighting plane, strength, vertical recoil versus lateral recoil....whatever. Most Americans love the over-under. Based on my shooting, I much prefer the barrels to be horizontal because that's how my eyes are situated in my head!!!

A SxS sidelock ejector, double trigger, straight grip, double under bite, dolls head extension, A&D fore stock release, game rib, 27" plus barrel length.

Of course there is deletions that can happen, It could be BLNE, it could be a Wales grip, it could have a hidden third bite......All you fault JB


To me a SxS is the classic to be seen with double, par excellence, bar none. The O&U as always been the beater work horse, game playing gun to me. Never as elegant.

I like SXS and OU, But if I had to choose I know I will shoot an OU better due to the fact I have shot them more. As for the trigger... ONE!

So here is my idea of perfect for a hunting rig, 12 ga OU with tubes (and they dont need to hang out the end) 26" single trigger with lots of bling!!

But I need to catch up on the new stuff, I haven't been shooting the shotgun for years.. so school me!

Jeff

Gunning, like everything else worth doing, has it's ongoing debates. Is a 16-gauge better than a 20? One trigger better than two? Long barrels better than short? On and on. This is nothing new and is one of the joys in the world of shotguns & shooting. Shooters in times forgotten argued the merits of flintlock versus caplock, breechloader versus muzzleloader, black powder over smokeless, twist barrels over steel. Probably the most durable debate in the biggest part of this century is centered on whether the over-under is better than the side-by-side, and vice versa.

I have a folder a half inch thick on this topic along with many books on doubles with chapters on this debate, but my conclusions are my own based on my own experience.

Which do you prefer and why?